Against Jihad – Islamophobe? Against NAZI – Germanophobe?

It is incredible how some people frame the discussion in a way that any criticism of Islamic Terrorism automatically makes a person an Islamophobe.

I hate NAZI party. That does not make a Germanophobe. I hate Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, and all that filth – that does not make me Islamophobe either. Hell, I hate Stalin and Russian Communist party – that does not make Russophobe either. I am Russian myself, damn it!

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14 Comments »

  1. jonolan said

    It’s a trick they learned from the Jews. Israel proved that by claiming that antisemitism is the cause for all complaints against itself it can effectively destroy the creditability of all it’s detractors. Radical Muslims have learned to emulate this behavior; it’s ironic if you think about it.

    In the US we have CAIR which complains and files lawsuits against anyone who supports an anti-Jihadist agenda; they claim it’s Islamophobia. LOL!

    My general philosophy is that every time a member of a group claims I’m bigoted because I dislike a related group or a subgroup I become a little prejudiced against that group as a whole. I’m willing to be just as bad as they claim I am.

  2. armilnov said

    You are wrong.

    All of Israel’s neighbors want to destroy it and kill its citizens. President of Iran says that “Israel should be wiped off the map” and builds nuclear weapons to do so. Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, are supported by neighboring Syria and Lebanon, and “specialize” in killing innocent civilians just because they are Jews. You can be critical of a country, let us say France, attacking Germany without provocation. But Israel is fighting for its right to EXIST. Your “criticism” of Israel is dishonest.

    Israel exists because after 3000+ years of persecution by every nationality and every religion, starting with Romans and ending with with Hitler’s attempt at “final solution of Jewish question”, even UN realized that Jews deserve a safe haven. I would not have created this “haven” in the most violently anti-Semitic place on planet, but UN in all its “wisdom” did.

    It is dishonest to compare aggressive bullying by Islamo-Fascists with self-defense by Israel, defending its right to merely exist.

  3. jonolan said

    Can I be critical of the methods and tactics that Israel takes? Many vocal Jews would call me anti-Semite for doing so? It’s the same tactics as crying “islamaphobe!” In either case it’s claiming that a complaint about one thing is a pathological hatred or fear of a larger group.

    All Jews aren’t Israeli and not ALL Israeli Jews take inappropriate actions. All Muslims are radical terrorists. Members of both groups have done “bad” things. Other members of both groups cry about some form of bigotry whenever any members of the respective groups are complained about.

    In both cases it’s an attempt to destroy the creditability of the complainer.

  4. armilnov said

    “All Muslims are radical terrorists.”
    That is RACIST, my friend. There are Iraqi Muslims who risk their lives patrolling Baghdad together with our Marines. I have friends who, being Muslim, are against Islamic Terrorism. This, what you said right now, is disgusting.

    To say that all Muslims are terrorists is as stupid as to say that all Germans are NAZIs. The point of my post was exactly that – just like all NAZIs were Germans but not all Germans were NAZIs, today all Islamic Terrorists are Muslim but not all Muslims are terrorists. So, when you speak out against Islamo-Fascism or Islamic Terrorism, you are perfectly just and fair. You are NOT painting all of 2 billion Muslims as terrorists, no matter what CAIR hoods say.

    And you are also WRONG:

    When Israelis attack, they always attack in self-defense, trying to kill known terrorists who hide themselves among civilians. Israel does everything in its power – short of not protecting itself – to minimize civilian casualties.

    When terrorists attacks, they deliberately try to kill as many civilians as they can.

    Your trying to equate Islamic terrorism and Israeli self-defense are ignorant and dishonest. There is no comparison between the two.

  5. jonolan said

    EEEP! SORRY! TYPO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Corrected passage: All Muslims AREN’T radical terrorists.

  6. jonolan said

    As for Israeli tactics, I suggest you look at numerous UN complaints for the details. Also look at references to the Occupied territories. Israeli “self defense” seems to have a strong componant of “preemptive action”.

    In any case I was only equating the US jewish tendency to claim anti-semitism when someone speaks against Israel’s actions with some Muslims’ tendency to to claim Islamophobia when someone speaks out against islamists. I was NOT actually deriding Israel’s actions per say.

  7. armilnov said

    Israel fights for ITS RIGHT TO EXIST. I would love to see what tactics France would use if Germany was trying to “wipe it off the map”. I would especially love to see what YOU would do if someone told you “I will kill you now, you have no right to exist”.

    So-called occupied territories were occupied as a result of Six-Day War, which was a war of self-defense, in response to Arab nations’ obvious preparation for invasion. Israel was created in 1948, and for 20 years it tried to live in peace, but when almost ALL your neighboring countries — Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Kuwait — deny your right to EXIST and try to amass a force to INVADE YOU, all bets are off.

    And UN, which created Israel in the first place, should try to look at itself. The day when UN condemns Hamas or Hezobllah) or Al-Qaeda, for that matter), is the day when pigs will fly. UN “Oil-For-Food” scandal ring a bell? UN is the most corrupt body that ever existed, their own “peace-keepers” are routinely exposed as rapists in Africa. They are indeed the most anti-Semitic body of them all, because according to UN Hamas are innocent while Israelis are guilty of “existing”.

    Besides, Israel UNILATERALLY withdrew from Gaza, just to prove its dedication to earn its right to EXIST. Yet, still rockets fall from Gaza, courtesy of Hamas, who moved into Gaza as Israelis withdrew. And still, according to people like you, Israel is not doing enough.

    What should Israelis do — open borders, let Hamas and Hezbollah in, and wait for bearded guys with knives to come and slit their throats? Or maybe they deserve a right to defend themselves against enemy which knows no moral restraint and employs terror tactics against civilian population?

    As I said before:
    “When Israelis attack, they always attack in self-defense, trying to kill known terrorists who hide themselves among civilians. Israel does everything in its power – short of not protecting itself at all – to minimize civilian casualties.

    When terrorists attacks, they deliberately try to kill as many civilians as they can.”

  8. jonolan said

    OK, Armilnov, you unequivocally support all the actions Israel has taken to support itself. That’s fine. Frankly I’m unsure of exactly what my opinion of their actions is

    My original point was many Jews would automatically call me an ant-Semite for no other reason than that I don’t unequivocally support all the actions Israel has taken to support itself, just as many Muslims would say that I’m an Islamaphobe because I recognize that the US’ current terrorist threats are primary Muslims.

    Same behavior, different words.

  9. armilnov said

    First, I am not sure what you exactly meant by “same behavior, different words”, but I want to point out that self-defense is not “same behavior” as barbaric religious mass murder.

    Second, consider this: when Israel kills known Hamas terrorists with $100,000 precision bomb to minimize civilian casualties it is blamed by UN as an “aggressor” and Arab states call for restraint.

    When another Hamas terrorist slaughters Israeli grandmoms and children at, let us say, Sbarro’s pizzeria, with suicide vest packed with ball bearings, world yawns, and UN is silent.

    Another example:
    Israel withdraws from Gaza – Hamas says “thank you” by starting to launch Qassam rockets daily at Sderot that is in Israel, not in Gaza! Does anyone give a damn? NO!

    My point is: there is a double standard that is applied only to Israel. If Israel would be any other country, let us say France, at which its neighbors would launch rockets daily and send suicide bombers to kill civilians, the world would be enraged. Yet, as Israel is full of — you guessed it, Jews, — nobody gives a damn. If this double standard is not anti-Semitism, I wonder what is. Anti-Semites in 19th Century persecuted and killed Jews openly and on their own. Anti-Semites of today hide behind “anti-Zionist” rhetoric and do their best to facilitate murder of Jews by proxy — that is, by hand of Islamo-Fascists. “Anti-Zionism” is the new codeword for “anti-Semitism”.

  10. jonolan said

    Corrected Comment – Sorry.

    OK, I’ll try this again – The original post seemed to be about the overuse of the phrase “Islamophobia”. You were rightly complaining about how many Muslim groups “frame the discussion in a way that any criticism of Islamic Terrorism automatically makes a person an Islamophobe.” I said that was a trick they learned from the Jews since Jews (in the US at least) have long had the habit of framing the discussion in a way that any criticism of Israel’s actions automatically makes a person an Anti-Semite.

    That was the basis for “same behavior, different words.” I was not drawing a parallel between Islamic terrorists’ attacks and Israel’s activities.

  11. armilnov said

    Thank you for correction. I see what you are trying to say.

    As to anti-Semitism: can you be critical of some very specific thing Israel does and not be anti-Semite? Absolutely yes. But I cannot see how can an honest man be critical in general of Israel’s desperate fight for survival and not be an anti-Semite. That is my point.

    As I said before, if France would be in place of Israel, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. The problem of Hamas/Hezbollah would have been solved decisively and with overwhelming military force long time ago. But since it is Israel, the rules are different – as always they are for Jews.

    Jews have been barbarically persecuted for centuries in all of Europe and Middle East since Roman times. In Christian World alone, they were massacred by Catholics, Protestants, and Russian Orthodoxes (read about pogroms of 19th Century here). So, taking in consideration this bloody history, and blatant double-standard towards Israel, Jews have a right to be more sensitive about this subject than you wish they would be.

  12. jonolan said

    LOL! It appears that after all the miscommunications are resolved we actually come fairly close to agreeing. We probably differ on the specifics of Israel’s actions & reactions but that’s normal between any two people. Overall we seem to believe the same things.

    It’s been good hashing out this stuff!

  13. armilnov said

    Well, I am very glad we both actually understand what the other person is saying. Great! That is good practice, because with blogging it is so easy (in my personal experience) to misread or misunderstand the statement written by someone else.
    Thanks for your comments and for sticking with it!
    🙂

  14. jonolan said

    LOL It seems to be the same way in international diplomacy!

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